Has anyone done any? I've only been welding for a year, but I've got 4 certifications, and I've used every common form of welding there is (acytalene, SMAW, GMAW, GTAW, flux core), but I bought this plastic welder from harbor freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=41592) and I can't figure it out for the life of me.
The recommended setting is 3 psi, but it doesn't put out enough heat. There doesn't appear to be a heat setting. I can melt the base plastic fine, but it won't seem to meld together for me, and by the time I get enough heat to melt the filler rods, the base plastic is a mess.
Any tips would be appreciated.
Mathius
Plastic welding has the same requirements as those for joining metals; a) good joint prep, b) the right heat and air pressure, and c) the right filler - it also needs d) the right tip.
My explanations: a) The joint must be clean of the compounds that plastic producers use to free the material from molds and processing equipment, and the pieces forming the joint must be properly beveled and have a good fit. b) Each plastic has it's very own heat and pressure requirements. First, there are two main groups of plastics; thermoset and thermoplastic. Thermosets are the thicker more robust fiberglass reinforced type; and theroplastic are the PVCs, polypropylene, polyethylene types. Thermoplastics are more easily heated and welded, but no two have the same heat and pressure requirements. PVCs for example need +/- 550F and approx 5 PSI; polyethylene about 500F at 8 PSI or 2 Cu.Ft./min. You need to know what type of plastic you're welding and it's requirements. c) The BEST filler is a strip of the very same material you are welding. Rods or 'splines' purchased or provided with kits must be the same material as your pieces. d) There are several tips available, and the right tip for the joint is a key. Can't use a corner or popular flat tips on every weld.
Your problem can be any one of the above, or a combination of two or three. Remember that plastic welding requires the equal heating of the weld spline or rod, weld piece, and of the weld bed. These are all simultaneously heated by a hot gas stream from the welding gun, and if the above factors (prep, heat/pressure, filler, tip) are right, you'll get a nice homogeneous bond or bead. If one of those factors is wrong the welding is for naught. It could be heat, could be the filler (rod/spline), could be your prep work, or the wrong tip - one that does not concentrate heat where you need it.
If it is, as you suspect, heat related; remember that heat can be controlled by moving the tip closer to, or away from, the workpiece - or by increasing gas flow. Of course welding different thicknesses of plastic together together is a factor. 1/2 welded to 3/4 will require quick and clever hand/eye cooridnation for heat control and application direction.
Good luck.
I don't mean to be picky, but I'd like to clear something up: thermoset plastic cannot be remelted once it has been molded (or taken a set), and thus is not a candidate for welding. The material thickness or the presence of fiberglass fillers is not what makes a plastic a thermoset.
Some types of plastics are more easily joined by adhesives or solvents, but others - such as polyolefins - are essentially unaffected by most solvents, which leaves welding as about the only effective method of joining.
I too am interested in pointers on plastic welding as I picked up the same welder at Harbor Freight last week while on vacation in Minneapolis.
Image credit: harborfreight.com
Looks like it will be a big improvement over using the tip of a soldering iron.
Only played with it for a couple of minutes but could control the temp by varying the airflow slightly.
Guys,
Funny you should ask about welding plastic! The latest issue of The Home Shop Machinist, (May/June 2004, Vol. 23, #3) has a very good article on Getting started with plastic welding. It even uses the Harbor freight welder and describes/shows what additional equipment (cheap) you need to really make it work, ie: a router speed control (makes heat output adjustable). Very informative, look for the issue on your local Walden books/Barnes and Noble shelves.
Good luck!
TimQ
TimQ,
Funny you should post this today, the day I first get to try my newly purchased welder on an emergency plumbing repair.
It was to stop a leak on a 3 sch 40 pvc pipe where it was glued to a flange.
Not as easy as experimenting on the workbench.
The pvc pipe and the flange have different characteristics and as SalvageCzar said, quick and clever hand/eye cooridnation for heat control is really what it takes.
Made a bit of a mess of it, mainly due to overheating and inaccessibility, but slowed the leak to a manageble amount untill replacement fittings arrive.
I have been welding and fabricating plastics for about 7 years. If you guys have any peticular questions, I would be happy to answer them for you.
Dax
I would like to try some plastic welding (fuel tanks, water tanks, water lines etc.). Would like some recommendations concerning the welders. Northern has a kit with a variable temp. control, no air pressure. Some kits rely on a stream of air or gas. Most of my work would be onsite repair work. Has anyone got any words of wisdom or mabye a good basic website to share. Many Thanks
I wish I had found this site before I tried to weld the PVC water line: LINK
Another plastic link.
Questions:
When I welded the water line I fould that the material didn't want to easily become viscous and became oveheated while I was applying the filler.
Was I being impatient?
I used some slivers of schd 40 pipe that I was working on as a filler.
Is this a good practice?
What I was welding was a failed glued joint. Would the pvc cement that was in the joint cause problems with the weld and do you know if the fitting would be of a different composition than the pipe?
Looking forward to fooling with this again.
For the money I'm pretty happy with the HF welder.
Any suggestions.
hey guys, I hope your plastic welding adventure has been smooth. I would like to say, in my opinion, that plastic welding is in its baby stage and there is a potential growth for it. There are so many things you can do with plastic. I have built work tables, table saw extensions, jigs/fixtures, entertainment center, etc; with plastics. In my experience I believe plastic working is between woodworking and metal working. When cutting and shaping (routing) you can use woodworking tools ie table saws and router bits. The difference is that there is no dust, just plastic chips. When welding plastics its a lot cleaner than metal, and quicker during preperation.
My experience with plasticworking/welding is in the custom manual/automated metal finishing industry. Plastics like Polypropylene, Polyethylen, PVC, CPVC, and KYNAR(PVDF) are good for this because they are noncorrisive too chemicals used for etching, plating, and annodizing. I also work with 316 Stainless steal because of its anticorrosive properties, but it will still rot against the highly corrosive chemicals.
Anyways, for the past for years I have been seeing the potential for plasticworking/welding, and would love to start my own company fabricating and repairing. But i am at block, and fearful of failure. maybe you guys could help inspire me. I would definetly appreciate anything.
Here are some welding gun websites: www.kamweld.com, www.laramyplasticwelders.com, www.wegenerwelding.com, www.malcom.com, www.leister.com
One thing I would like to point out. Fan welding (welding with the harborfrieght welding tip) is a slow, tough, and messy welding process. I only fan weld when i need to get in really tight spots. I recommend looking into a highspeed welding tip. They are cleaner, faster, and easier to get used too. But like anything else good welding comes from lots of practice and good instruction. Thank you for your time.
Dax
Dax,
When I realized that biology sciences weren't for me in high school and decided to persue a trade related education, refrigeration and plastics were two vocations that were open to me and when researching them, realized what you're saying, that plastics is a very wide field.
For me the choice I made was the right one because of the technical nature of my trade and the fact that I don't have to stay in the same place every day.
That's just me but I still wonder what it would be like if I had............................
I agree that there is a lot of potential in the industry.
Being in the business however is something that would take a great deal of thought and planning.
Having worked for someone for ten years and then leaving to go on my own has been a worthwhile adventure, but there are a lot of headaches as well.
There is so much to consider, a big one being whether you have a family and obligations that have to be met, regardless of how your business goes in the first stages.
Also, you have to consider exactly what services you will offer.
You most definately will need some major contracts to succeed that will likely require an investment in equipment and manpower.
It is possible for a one man shop to succeed but it would be a tough go.
What do you see yourself providing as far as services offered and to whom?
As far as the Harbor Freight plastic welder goes I think that it is that category of tool that allows folks to get a taste what working with plastics is all about.
I got mine while on vacation in Minneapolis and prior to seeing this one, knew they were available but didn't have access to one at a reasonable price.
Where I am I have only seen pro models in the $300.00 CDN price range.
HF allowed me to see what it is all about as I would never spend $300.00, not knowing if something would work or not.
I only have tried mine once, and although I was able to stop a water leak, the appearance isn't pretty.
Mind you it is way ahead of the flat tip on a Weller soldering iron I have used in the past.
I don't have time right now but I'll save your links and maybe put up a sticky on the subject of plastic welding and if you are interested, can hang out to see if anyone wants to know more.
( I have a couple of sheets of 4 x 8 sheet of high density poly that I'll see if I can dream up a project for.)
Oh ya, I do have a question maybe you can answer.
I have difficulty identifying the different types of plastics and also right now have a hard time getting plastic welding rods.
Do strips of the base plastic make a good welding filler or is there something in commercial plastic rods that promote flow and adhesion?
Thank you for the advice and your thoughts.
What plastics can you identify? Can you be more specific?
PP (Polypropylene) and HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) are very similair to the untrained eye. For natural colors HDPE usually has a faint yellow tint. HDPE has a waxier and more ridged feel. And of course they won't weld together. The best way is to work with someone that has worked with plastics. Try a search under identifying thermoplastics. Also try http://www.abbeon.com/newFiles/plastics.html. They have a section on identifing plastics
In theory, strips from the sheet you are welding would be the best welding rod, because they are exactly the same. But that can be time consuming. I did that once with corzan CPVC. I had to rip very small strips, and sand them down so they would fit a 5/32's round rod tip. I could have skipped the step of sanding, and fan welded, but like i said before fan welding is very time consuming.
check out www.plasticweldingrod.com I purchased rod from them and they were great. Round rod is typical the most universal rod. It goes from 1/8 up to 1/4 inch dia. They will answere any questions you have. Thanks again, and hope to hear from you soon
Dax
Dax,
When you say PP and HDPE won't weld together, do you mean that you can't weld PP and HDPE together or to themselves?
What I welded was a failed glued joint on some 2 schedule 40 PVC plumbing pipe.
I scraped the glue away from the joint and heated both the fitting and the pipe. I applied heat with the HF tool and used strips of the same pipe as rod, but found that the PVC would overheat as the surface came to near the melting point.
I could have been impatient and didn't take enough time to heat the joint slowly or maybe the HF tool is too small.
What do you think?
Greg,
Sorry if my last responce was confusing. Any Thermoplastic can be welded to itself. Some are harder than others. Like UHMW (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene), is hard to weld to itself. You need high heat and presure. but UHMW will not weld to HDPE even though its a type of Polyethylen. Just remember that you can weld a thermoplastic to itself (HDPE to HDPE). and you can't weld one thermoplastic to another (HDPE to PP) there molecular strutures are different and will not bond under heat. In fact the other day I was fabricating a PP tank for chemical holding. I grabed some HDPE welding rod by mistake. When I started welding I knew somthing was different. But under heat it appeared to stick. Then I took a moment to think about why it was different to weld. So i grabed the leftover that was welded to the tank, and it peeled right off.
Now to your PVC question. I have had to back-weld many PVC/CPVC pipe to socket fitings (all schedule 80) From 1/2 inch to 6 inch. When you were trying to weld the fitting did it start burning (black/yellowish char)? If so, the gases that came out are very unhealthy for you. If you inhaled some of it, it probably had a really harsh/intence sweet taste to it. Burning PVC releases carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen chloride and water vapour. I recomend using a resporator or mask if your not familiar with welding PVC. Obviously if it is burning your heat is to high. Turn up the air on your compressor, this will cause the heat coming out of the HF to lower in temp. When welding PVC the Temp. should be roughly 300C/572F. IF you have a Multimeter with a thermocouple, stick the thermocouple 1/8 of an inch in the air nozzle and adjust the air as needed. The plastic should be in a plastisized state before welding, meaning that the plastic looks very shiny and plyable, not melting or burning.
I still recomend using a high speed tip when welding, but if its not feesable you can still get by. After you have scraped both sides of the pipe joint, I reccomend using a tacking tip (http://wegenerwelding.com/usa/non-flash/weldingtips.htm #2 is the tacking tip) When using the tacking tip, it heats both sides of the joint and the narrow end of the tip blends the 2 sides of the joint together causing a nonstructural weld. In my experience a good tack can seal a joint. But i don't recommend using this as the only method for repair, it just makes the welding process easier.
http://www.plasticsmag.com/welding.a...ct-01aid=3337.
This is an artical that explains the welding process and shows Fan weld. I am a better hands on teacher. The artical will do a better job of explaining it in text than i could do. I recommend reading and practicing then reading and practicing, and so on.
I hope I did an ok job of explaining it to you. I apologize for my grammer, spelling, and flow of ideas; I always feel like im in a rush.
dax
Greg H ,
I am looking to get a plastic welder , mainly for atv/dirtbike fenders and snowmobile hoods.
you said you can get a pro model for $300 cnd
Can you tell me where and what model.
Also to anyone I am new to this forum and as I said want to get into this plastic welding mainly for my own use but with tthe possibilities of starting a part time business repairing the above items.
Any opinions of welders that I should look at would be appriciated.
Please add any links to them also
Thanks
Gerry
Gerry,
I don't recall a specific model in that $300.00 price range but there are thirteen links provided in this thread, and the answer may be in one of them.
dax has provided us with a lot of info and if you can't find what you are looking for in the links or his posts, just ask.
I have all the links saved , I just have to go through them . If you remember a model or anything let me know.
ger
I just read through this thread and would like to know if sintra aka PVCX can be heat welded ? also would like to know if anyone might know if any of the other speed tips etc ofr other welders will fit the HF plastic welder. I got mine today and was happy to atleast see it has removeable tips. As a lil FYI i am a reptile breeder and also build plastic reptile caging i was looking to beable to use this welder on the PVCX material when needed. the cages i will be building are going to be heat bent 1/4 PVCX ( expanded PVC) this has a foamed inner core to it . I know it can be worked with conventional PVC glues but was wondering if welding is a option if any one knows ... Thanks in advance.
Alan
A few things I know about hot gas welding for plastics.
I have done this as a service for my customers, including chemical companies with leaking tanks with highly volatile poisons...
You must be certain of the base material and use the exact same filler.
Not all plastics can be welded using an air cover gas. For example, when welding HDPE, a nitrogen cover gas is required.
You must know whether certain plastics are cross linked, and it's been awhile since I ran across this, but if they are, they cannot be hot gas welded, (I may have that exactly opposite)
A good source for information is plastics products catalogs. I have found that US Plastics ( a plastic product manufacturer/distributor) has a tech dept who I can call and ask all the hard questions and they can answer them for me.
There is not alot of call for industrial plastic welding but it does exist. It's godo to have information sources because they are hard to come by.
And remember, cleanliness is next to Godliness when it comes to plastic welding.
Hello all. I just started a new job for a piping distributer. There main market is for the comercial aquadics industry (ie water parks). They have just started up a fabrication department where me and another fabricator are heading up. We are doing a lot of PVC fabrication where Stainless used to be used. Hope all is doing well with everyone.
Dax
P.S. Ive never heard of anyone heat welding expanded plastic. I would think that it would just shrivel up or burn.
You do not need Nitrogen gas for welding HDPE, it is just recomended. You do need an oilless and moisture free air source.
I do believe that cross-linked plastic is refered to a type of acrylic, that cannot be solvent welded.
This is a topic as was said, where info is hard to come by.
Thanks for sharing.
I have been in the plastic welding industry for 10 year's and i am certified by the German Welding Society ( DVS ). If anyone has any questions about welding plastics i will gladly answer them.
Jack.
I don't know anything about plastic welding, but I heard about it in my motorcycle forum. I have cracked a couple of my fairings on my bike . Right now I my repairs consist of Ving out the crack and putting epoxy in the crack, and then I reinforce the back with fiberglass. I think it would be easier to weld it. Some people on the forum was talking about just using a solder iron on the back side of the fairing. Would this work all right?? What are the correct tools and process to fix the fairings??? I have read some of the previous replies and they were for pvc piping. Thanx
Hopefully some of the experts can help.
I will say that before you can decide on a method of repair you will have to figure out exactly what the fairing is made of.
If fibreglass then welding isn't an option. It then must be fibreglassed.
Let us know what it is.
Ok .... I ask some guys on the forum and they said it was ABS plastic for the fairings. Is that weldable. Thanx
Yes, the abs is weldable. these things are pretty thin and its easy to warp if you have too much heat. air temp is critical, so if you're going to do a bunch of repairs, get yourself a temperature probe and check air temps frequently. I own a plastic weld shop and do mostly polypropylyene and hdpe. the other posters mentioned the fumes from welding pvc are brutal: how true, use plently of ventilation. I guess you can do some work with the inexpensive welding tools, but as with anything, the really good tools cost bucks. out shop has thousands tied up in equipment.
I too have purchased one of the HF plastic welders. It is on the way now, I bought it hoping to repair a plastic radiator in a 97 Mazda Protege. There is a pencil-thick hole just below the filler neck on the upper tank. I know the HF welders come with I believe four different types of plastic rod, which rod should I use, or is it even advisable to weld a radiator? What type of plastic is a radiator like this composed of?
EDIT: I am also hoping to repair a broken off side view mirror body.
there may be letters somewhere on the radiator showing the type of plastic:
pp is polypropylene
hdpe is high density polyethylene
or talk to the parts guys at a dealer. we've never done any radiator repairs here.
or for anyone else since all of you are expert compared to me.
I have a 5000 gallon polypropalene water tank that blew away in a gale (empty) and ended up with a fence post ripping a hole in the bottom. The material is about 3/8 thick and the tear is ragged and maybe four or five feet in total length.
I bought a Makita hot air gun kit partly to try repairing the tank and partly to build several 50 gallon tanks for my bus to motorhome conversion. I used to sell these tanks and this one is about $2000 worth and the manufacturer estimated it would cost about $500 to get their field operator to weld it up.
I have a few similar sections from another tank and have been practicing -- for all of 30 minutes -- using rods cut from the scrap pieces. The rods' are 3/8 wide and 1/8 thick and I simulated a crack by sawing a 1/8 wide slot in the plastic with a circular saw.
What I tried was to lay a strip centrally over the crack using a small circular nozzle (I have a speed nozzle but obviously it won't take my strip rods.
Then I laid another strip half on the original strip and half on the parent material on each side of the original strip. Then I laid a fourth strip over the top of the original strip but of course bonding to the second and third strip as well as the first one.
I've cut the join up to check for uniformity and strength and for a first attempt it seems remarkably uniform and strong - even if I do say so myself.
On the tank repair, appearance is not important and I can weld from both sides -- so my question is - is this technique likely to be successful. I know that the right way may be to vee the joint out and then use round rods but I don't have round rods and it will be a cow of a job to vee it all out. I have drilled holes and used wire to draw the edges together fairly neatly but of course there has been a bit of stretching and there will be a gap of up to 1/8 to bridge.
Thanks
Tony Lee
When I say lay the strip down I don't mean that I just put the stip flat on the surface and then heated hell out of it until it melted into the surface. I mean holding the strip at right angles and pushing it down as it and the parent material softened - as per usual technique.
I am having a problem welding Ѕ-inch CPG Starboard to itself.
I have the Harbor Freight welding tool.
I bought triangular shaped welding rod I was told was the right material.
I cannot get a good weld. Sometimes the rod sticks to one side and not the other.
The rod has never made a strong weld. I have always been able to pull it apart.
Does anyone have a technique to weld Ѕ-inch CPG Starboard?
Thanks,
Ken
Does anyone have a copy of the article in question that they would be willing to post/email? The magazine is sold out and they want more for the article then the whole magazine originally costs and the magazine is sold out. I would rather give the $20.00 to the local food bank and I will.
thank you
Moderator note:
Soliciting copyright material from other than the owner is unlawful and not allowed here.
The article may allow you to repair or make something that far exceeds the value of the reprint.
ignore previous post
Has anybody else here tried this kind of plastic welder (Injectiweld)yet besides me?
Seems ok so far, except when I tried welding two empty clearly labeled jugs together made of hdpe with hdpe rod at 265 C
The rod and jugs did melt nicely but did not mix ? not sure why ?
Any tips on where to find scrap small sheets of polyethelene that I could use for patches on septic and fresh water tanks for motorhomes .
maybe like a windshield fluid container from an old car ?
thanks
mzorro
where did you buy the injectiweld?
Drader ,Edmonton,Alberta where I live.
Used it again today on an motorhome fresh watertank today to repair a leaky factory spin fitting.
Slowly learning my temp setting was too low from previous attempts obviously the rod melts quicker than the tanks do ,duh !
Not the best feeling learning on new motorhomes (no pressure) here !
It's either that or pull the tank and drive 45 minutes each way to the city.
The one handed work sure is nice for a greenhorn like me. I can see lots of potential with this cool tool,you'd be surprized how many plumbing type problems most RV s have.
mzorro
plastic welding takes a lot of practice, with the right guidence. The best thing to do is to practice on scrap material. Try experimenting with different heat settings, speed of rod, angle you push the rod, and fanning of the tip. try breaking the rod by sticking a chisel flat against the flow lines and pulling the rod up. Its tough to learn if there is no one there with experience to show the right way. All i can say is be patient and like anything else practice, practice, practice.
good luck
Dax
Originally Posted by junglehabitats
I just read through this thread and would like to know if sintra aka PVCX can be heat welded ? also would like to know if anyone might know if any of the other speed tips etc ofr other welders will fit the HF plastic welder. I got mine today and was happy to atleast see it has removeable tips. As a lil FYI i am a reptile breeder and also build plastic reptile caging i was looking to beable to use this welder on the PVCX material when needed. the cages i will be building are going to be heat bent 1/4 PVCX ( expanded PVC) this has a foamed inner core to it . I know it can be worked with conventional PVC glues but was wondering if welding is a option if any one knows ... Thanks in advance.
Alan
Yes PVCX can be welded, you may run into a problem with the inner core shrinking. Give it a try I sure you will not have a problem.
Originally Posted by mzorro
Has anybody else here tried this kind of plastic welder (Injectiweld)yet besides me?
Seems ok so far, except when I tried welding two empty clearly labeled jugs together made of hdpe with hdpe rod at 265 C
The rod and jugs did melt nicely but did not mix ? not sure why ?
Any tips on where to find scrap small sheets of polyethelene that I could use for patches on septic and fresh water tanks for motorhomes .
maybe like a windshield fluid container from an old car ?
thanks
mzorro
P.E. is hard to weld cosmeticly, it does mix. H.D.P.E (high density polyethylene) JLAutoworks sold me a plastic welder, it's not an injection welder its a veri-temp welder alot like a soldering iron. I have been welding my plastic canoes perfectly they were made from P.E.
You can usually scratch the different textures with the fingernail. P.E. being more slick. Trouble identifing palstics? it could be P.A. plastic.type. Called ISO code it helps with recycling.
Originally Posted by Daxman77
Thank you for the advice and your thoughts.
What plastics can you identify? Can you be more specific?
PP (Polypropylene) and HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) are very similair to the untrained eye. For natural colors HDPE usually has a faint yellow tint. HDPE has a waxier and more ridged feel. And of course they won't weld together. The best way is to work with someone that has worked with plastics. Try a search under identifying thermoplastics. Also try http://www.abbeon.com/newFiles/plastics.html. They have a section on identifing plastics
In theory, strips from the sheet you are welding would be the best welding rod, because they are exactly the same. But that can be time consuming. I did that once with corzan CPVC. I had to rip very small strips, and sand them down so they would fit a 5/32's round rod tip. I could have skipped the step of sanding, and fan welded, but like i said before fan welding is very time consuming.
check out www.plasticweldingrod.com I purchased rod from them and they were great. Round rod is typical the most universal rod. It goes from 1/8 up to 1/4 inch dia. They will answere any questions you have. Thanks again, and hope to hear from you soon
Dax
Tags: plastic, welding, plastic welding, plastic welder, have been, would like, they were, answer them, because they, heat pressure
