Pelican Salt free system
First off, I just want to say how informative this forum has been on water softener units. I can't believe consumer reports has nothing listed on this subject. It also seems many people are getting ripped off and don't even realize. I quickly called Puronics today and canceled my appointment after reading the post on this site. I'm glad I've taken so time to do some research in to this subject. Anybody have any feeling towards a Pelican salt free system? I'm looking at purchasing the PSE 1800 combo unit. I feel this unit might be the way for me to go. I can tap right into my main water line into the house and not have to worry about a separate water line for watering outside. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Brian You are going to get several responses...but when I asked a similar question..I was convinced that no salt systems don't work as advertised. Not sure about the pelican thing..but I'm sure you'll hear back. I too looked into the no-salt softners, and wasn't pleased with what I found. I'm now considering a Fleck 5600 internet buy, or a local installer offered to install a Powerline system (Kinetico unit) for $1495. I haven't researched the Powerline yet, so not sure which way we're going to go. Are you pre-plumbed for a system? BTW: I'm just north of you in Liberty Hill (just N of 183 29) ... small world I guess. Maybe we can talk a local dealer into a group buy? Thomas. I lived in Georgetown and Round Rock for 13 years while in the water treatment business. I know all the dealers in the area and their ways of doing business. If you want a good local dealer who will treat you right, and not ask an arm and leg for the unit, call Tommy Dorsey Water. He sells a Fleck 5600 metered unit installed on a pre-plum for around $895.00. He taught me the business and I respect him and his ways of doing business. So far I think for me a Water Conditioner and Filter is the way I'm headed. A water Softener adds salt or potassium and has lots of upkeep. I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is 1. Saving my appliances and pipes from the wear and tear of hard water. 2. Not looking at the white film in the shower, tub, sinks, faucets, dishes, etc.... Other factors I'm looking at, are that softeners remove most or all minerals such as calcium and potassium etc... I work in health care, (Cardiac), and see a majority of patients with deficiencies in minerals on a regular basis. The World Health Organization has even gone on record by saying that RO is one of the worst ways to filter water, because it depletes major minerals. I guess it depends on what you are looking for and what you are wanting the unit to do. Also, I do not have to bypass my water faucets to the outside of the house. I'll have a look at the Kinetico. I've read here they are very good. No, my system is not pre-plumbed. A guy I work with, we are researching all this together. We will more than likely buy the same unit and help one another install the units. I'd be interested to hear more why some are steering away from the salt free systems. B Originally Posted by Oksooner So far I think for me a Water Conditioner and Filter is the way I'm headed. A water Softener adds salt or potassium and has lots of upkeep. I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is 1. Saving my appliances and pipes from the wear and tear of hard water. 2. Not looking at the white film in the shower, tub, sinks, faucets, dishes, etc.... B What you might find interesting about these so called salt-free softeners is that they are sold on-line. They market to those they want to believe will get the same results without adding 'salt' to their water, which softeners should not do. Sodium yes, salt, no. The second-most complaint (next to NOT WORKIN) is that customer service is non-existent except that they want to sell you a bigger one. You might notice, also, that local dealers rarely sell these things because they don't work and don't want to have to service them or constantly explain to their customers (face-to-face) why they don't match expectations. So they are sold on-line and refunds are very difficult, if not impossible, to get. If they worked, I would be selling them. Also, what makes you think you won't get that white film (soap scum) on shower walls? Is this an actual claim from an ad that you read or are you making a deduction from their info? Good luck there. Ice-makers, dishwashers, etc., will still suffer hardwater results. What do you mean a softener has 'lot of upkeep'? Certainly, you need to add salt, but other than that, what? The benefits and cost savings far outweigh the 'upkeep', in my opinion. Originally Posted by Oksooner Other factors I'm looking at, are that softeners remove most or all minerals such as calcium and potassium etc... I work in health care, (Cardiac), and see a majority of patients with deficiencies in minerals on a regular basis. The World Health Organization has even gone on record by saying that RO is one of the worst ways to filter water, because it depletes major minerals. I guess it depends on what you are looking for and what you are wanting the unit to do. Also, I do not have to bypass my water faucets to the outside of the house. B You say factors. How does a softener remove potassium? Did you read this somewhere? How much potassium is in your water now and how much would a softener remove? Testing would determine that. How many dozens of gallons of your water would you need to drink to the potassium from half a banana? I prefer not 'factoring' health issues without more information. If you really work in a health care facility, then I don't need to tell you that proper diet and suppliments are the greatest way to get nutrients, including calcium. The amount calcium in a glass of milk, you would have to drink gallons and gallons of water--and that would be extremely dangerous. Water should a transporter of nutrients, not a supplier. Where are you getting the details the WHO says ROs are the worst way to treat water? I suppose from those marketing other products. Instead, go their site and do a search. You will be amazed at the hundreds of links that attribute to the benefits of RO water. Of the 1340 links below, can you find one that says RO water is harmful or should be avoided at the World Health Organization website? Search results: reverse osmosis Please avoid taking marketing ads from a company that promotes a particular method of treatment and attributing as a true and sole source of information and authority on a topic. Originally Posted by Oksooner I'll have a look at the Kinetico. I've read here they are very good. No, my system is not pre-plumbed. A guy I work with, we are researching all this together. We will more than likely buy the same unit and help one another install the units. I'd be interested to hear more why some are steering away from the salt free systems. B I like Kinetico but there are many types of equipment and campanies that can serve your needs. One of the key reasons to decide whether or not to select a water treatment is certification from independent, testing labs such as NSF, UL, WQA, Biovir Labs, etc. Basing claims on websites that use psuedosciences and self-promotional motivations must be taken with caution. Some, I believe, are absolute nonsense. Go ahead and buy one and you can be the judge if your pipes are getting clogged or not. Of course, if the problem didn't exist in the first place, then you can claim it works great. Good luck. Andy Christensen, CWS-II I have had a Pelican system (softener and house filter) for almost 2 years now and I couldn't be more Disappointed. I would definitely stay away from the salt less softeners. If you do decide to go with one do some serious water testing and read all the fine print. I say this because the one I installed seemed to stop working after 6-8 months (not sure it even worked or if it was just me trying to justify the large purchase). I called after the 1 yr mark and they asked me to have my water tested and make sure the copper level was below .5 ppm (which is almost impossible). I have city water and my copper tested at .6 to .7 ppm which voided the warranty. It stated on their warranty high levels of copper. They offered to sell me a salt softener at a reduced cost, I felt like I was taking for over $2K so needless to say we are going with someone else. After much research, reviews and almost a year living with hard water and some serious water spots. I have decided to go with a Kinetico system, I will live with the fact that I may have to add salt 2-3 times a year. And I agree with everything that AndyC says below, he is right on the money. The pelican no salt system is garbage. Can't be more dissapointed. They really hammer you on the environment and the salt going into the ground water. The environmental issue may be rue but if you want soft water you need a traditional softener. Customer service with them is a joke. Here is the link to the WHO report on Reverse Osmosis water: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...ineralized.pdf It doesn't make de-mineralized water sound good. However, filtered water is different from softened water. Andy, Thank you for all your insightful posts. In my search for a reliable water conditioning system, your screen name comes up quite often along with the Kinetico brand. With all the research I've done, it seems that Kinetico is hands down the best system, I've had it in my house for a little over two weeks and I feel very confident that it's going to do what Kinetico says it's going to do. Long story short, I've been in the market for a softener for a little over a year. I had a company come out and the sales person was pushing an Oceanus system... Let me just say that I am so glad that I did not have an electrical outlet where my main water pipe's located, if there was, I would have been stuck with a wasteful and unreliable single tank unit. I don't even want to know what an electrician would have charged me to place an outlet near the water pipe. Since I didn't have an outlet, I was Conned into buying a carbon filter, the sales person mislead me that some how it conditions the water. So here I am thinking I have soft water but have dechlorinated water at best. Then one day the filter explodes and charcoal bits are flowing into the bathtub while she's drawing a bath for my girls. They looked like spider eggs. Lucky that POS filter was under warranty but it was then I was informed that my Softener was just a carbon filter. It was dumb luck that I learned about Kinetico. Your posts educated me about water softeners, so thanks again for all the great info. Before I sign off, I'm curious to know why the Saltless Pelican system doesn't work. Is it legal for them to claim that they soften water when they don't? Doesn't this also apply to Lifesource, from what I've read about Lifesource, it's a big time scam, I'm just shocked to see Ed Begely endorse a BS product. Cheers! One Very Happy Kinetico Customer Thank you and glad that it is working out for you. Sorry about the carbon situation. I hope the Kinetico guy at least took mthe time to explain what it was you were going to buy. Did they fix or buy back the filter? As far as the legality of terms used in marketing, that is beter anwered by those specialized in commercial law. I would say, though, that the ethics is quite a bit shy of acceptable. Keep me posted, Andy Andy, The Kinetico rep was thorough and showed me other tests and other water comparisons that the other sales reps did not. Andy, the old filter has been discarded, I think. I don't think anyone would buy it or give any sort of credit for it. Whatever, water under the bridge. The way I see it is like this, it was a fairly expensive lesson, ($500? Can't remember because I also bought the RO with the carbon filter) But I won't ever have to worry about the water flowing through my house. I learned to never to do business with that company again. I did learn a little more about the Pelican, I read that it's nothing but a huge carbon tank that does nothing in regards to solve the hardness. I also read that there are $12,000 models and you still need to hire a plumber to install it. Now that I think about it, $500 isn't so bad. Originally Posted by AndyC Thank you and glad that it is working out for you. Sorry about the carbon situation. I hope the Kinetico guy at least took mthe time to explain what it was you were going to buy. Did they fix or buy back the filter? As far as the legality of terms used in marketing, that is beter anwered by those specialized in commercial law. I would say, though, that the ethics is quite a bit shy of acceptable. Keep me posted, Andy I purchased a Pelican NS-3 and have been very pleased. This system does not remove minerals like a water softener so don't expect it to act like one. What is does do is takes the dissolved minerals from your water and forms suspended particles that pass through your system. These suspended particles do not have the same effect as dissolved particles, in that your soaps work better, your clothes are softer, you get less mineral build up on appliances. It does not remove the minerals but changes their state, so you will have some minor spotting. The suspended particles act like catalysts and clean your pipes and appliances downstream. In fact two days after installation, my hot water pressure release valve started a small leak, because the scale and mineral buildup on the inside of my hot water heater was being removed. It could not have been coincidence. My shower head works much better as well, being cleaned by the system. Installation was easy, I have seen evidence of this system working, and it claims the crystals won't need replacing. No salt to mess with, no electricity or backflushing. I have never used a salt-based softener, but I am very pleased with the Pelican based on what I wanted it to do for my clothes, shower, dishwasher, and appliances. Shark (interesting ID!), sounds like a sales pitch. I always find it interesting that someone who has never posted on a forum, suddenly appears and promotes a product that virtually everyone else who has experience with or knowlege of disagrees. Pelicans are almost exclusively sold on line. This creates a wonderful situation for a seller because he knows no one can walk into his office and demand satisfaction and/or money back. This is a quote from the online ad: The Pelican Natursoft Salt Free Softener is the most environmentally conscious water softening/conditioning system available. The fact they use the words 'softening' and 'softener' in their ad, is clearly misleading at best and fraudulant at worst. Andy Not a sales rep at all. Did a lot of research including the grains of hardness in my local water (glenville ny) which is 13 to 15 grains. The system has made a noticeable difference, toilets are not getting stained as fast, clothes that are air dried are softer, the shower head has 'cleared' itself, we have one of those round ones with a lot of small holes, they used to spray crooked when clogged, not they are all straight. My pressure release valve went two days after installing the system and I did not fulsh it as recommended (until I replaced the valve). Not a coincidence as they rarely leak and the tank is less than 3 years old. I posted because I see so many people stating they are not softeners and they don't work, but it really doesn't soften your water if you define that by removing dissolved minerals like calcium and magnesium out of your water, but as you know claims to create suspended particles that pass through with less filming than dissolved particles. I think a lot of people want the feel that a water softener gives (slimy, smooth) and spot free drying which the Pelican does not do. I am convinced it worked (as have a lot of other people that reviewed it on-line) and the ones that did not like the performance had water that was either too hard to make this effective or was looking for it to do what a water softener does. The reason I have not posted before is that I pulled the trigger and wanted to look further as to whether anyone else had experienced similar results (I know, at that point I should have done more research up front) and ended up here, so I registered. I did buy on-line as it would have been a plumbing mess to install a traditional water softener where it needed to go, so I had hopes that this actually worked, and based on the reviews, my expectations (that is did not do what a traditional water softener does), and now my results it has. I see your point where they advertise it as a water softener is a bit misleading, because it does not change the water contents or hardness at all. Thanks We love our Pelican whole house filter and softener. We have well water. We got tired of paying for so much salt all the time and wanted the health benefits of water that was filtered, but still left the calcium and magnesium in the water. We bought the Pelican whole house filter and softening system. Couldn't be happier. We truly can drink from every tap in the house now. It does NOT soften the water as much as our old Culligan salt water softener did though. Kids love it because they rinse off much quicker in the shower. Soap still lathers good...but not as good as with the salt system. There is some water spots on the shower doors. But, it's not bad at all. The water is definitely still soft. Just not as soft. We don't care about the stains they're so minor. Also, using a rinsing agent in the dishwasher is all that is necessary. I'm surprised about all the skeptics. People seem paranoid. No matter what systems they buy they probably won't be happy. Oh yeah! We bought ours on the internet. Wasn't scary at all for me? Customers service seems fine so far. Pelican even gave us the phone number of the plumber to install it. People. Wake up. No system is going to do EVERYTHING. Decide what YOU need your system to do. Look at a few systems, then pick the one that YOU want. We wanted what the Pelican system offered. So we bought THAT one. If you want a system that just softens the water up so you get that smooth/slimy feeling with absolutely no water spots. Then DON'T buy Pelican. Buy the one that does that. Good Luck! While I am involved in the industry of water treatment, I also have/work with laboratories and manufacturers. What I find about almost anything that can be sold is that there are three things: 1) information, 2) lack of information and 3) misinformation. I want our company to provide my customer base with the system available on the market that best meets their needs. To date, I had not come across a salt-less water conditioner and was curious to check out the company and product, beyond the website that was provided to her. What I can say from my own education and personal trials and errors, is that there is simple chemistry when it comes to water. Here in New England, most everyone has some degree of hardness and some degree of iron as we have very iron rich bedrock that either provides drilled wells or spring wells with water. The hard minerals are represented as Iron, Calcium, Manganese, Copper (to name the most prevalent). These minerals deposit on your skin during showering, elements in heaters/coffee makers and internally when you drink your water. These minerals are NOT in the form that you take as a dietary supplement, they are in their most raw form -so they are NOT good if you have an intolerance, as an example. When you install a unit to remove hardness, it has been my experience that you need to replace 1 thing with another, calcium carbonate out, replace with sodium or potassium. The salt (sodium chloride) is used to clean the media and then a thin layer is left coating the resin bead, which is released into your water after the system has finished regenerating. The equivalent of sodium in the water with most water in our area, treated with a softener, is equal to a teaspoon of mustard if you drink a quart of water or 1 slice of bologna if you drink a gallon (respectively 2% or 11% of your recommended daily allowance. The slippery feel is not salt typically, it is one of two things 1) you have used too much soap or 2) your body's natural oils being allowed to come to the skins surface -I tell people, if you are in the shower and feel slippery, lick the back of your hand -you will know right off if you are still using too much salt. As another poster stated, in our industry, if it worked, I would be selling it... but I will add that if I could find one that works, and meets my customers needs, I would LOVE to market or direct my customers to this type of treatment. RO removes all minerals from the water, but then it is starving for the right bonding, so that when you drink that water, it begins to rob minerals out of your body, so this is why I don't drink RO. The company whose units we represent are not listed anywhere in this thread and I don't want you to think that my response is trying to get anyone to use what we recommend and install. I do also allow my DIY's to purchase the unit (AFTER A MINERAL ANALYSIS SO THAT WE KNOW IT IS THE RIGHT UNIT FOR ALL OF THEIR ISSUES) and install it themselves. As a contractor, I just did a lot of my house, but I always consulted the professionals on the proper materials/ equipment so that I knew that my hard earned money was spent as correctly as it could be. I understand the comments made here and will direct her to come read for herself -overwhelmingly, the units do not treat what she was led to believe they did and I will not pursue directing customers to this product on that. I got a quote of $2500 installed. I was very impressed with the website and the sales person, not to mention the company. But does it work? Puronicswater.com is the site. Dont waste your money.... Whats wrong with your water? What are your concerns? Mike NJ Originally Posted by jgo09 I got a quote of $2500 installed. I was very impressed with the website and the sales person, not to mention the company. But does it work? Puronicswater.com is the site. Way over priced. Once they get you, they keep coming back to change the carbon and charge you another arm leg for it. Post your water test results and we will tell you what you need and where to get it for a good price.
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